Why providing space for the musicians is key to creating big music.
Some musicians who are approaching the 30th anniversary of their first record’s release may be tempted to take their foot off the pedal a little and maybe coast on their back catalogue a little, but not Danny George Wilson who has just released possibly the best album of his career with his band the Champions of the World, “You Are Not A Stranger Here”. Americana UK’s Martin Johnson caught up with Danny over Zoom to discuss the new album and to try and get a handle on what keeps him creating new and exciting music. One of the recurring themes throughout the interview is how much he enjoys listening to and playing music, so much so that he describes it as his life’s passion. The songs on the new album are more personal than on previous albums, and Danny says that friends were asking his wife if he was alright. While the songs are clearly Danny George Wilson songs, the soundscapes that The Champs surround them in mark a move to what they call big music. Danny explains that the music this time was not recorded live in the room but was recorded over time in various locations and often instrument by instrument, and this gave the musicians the time and opportunity to create something very special, so special that Danny couldn’t hide his pride at what had been achieved.
How are you?
I’m doing great.
You have a new album “You Are Not A Stranger Here” that may be your best yet. What keeps the band going year after year?
The short answer is that I just love doing it. It sounds a weird thing to say, but I made my first record in 1995 and I don’t think I’ve had any more ambition other than to write some good songs, make some good records, and play good gigs. There is no huge career plan, I don’t expect to make lots of money, I just love doing it. It is more than a habit, it is like a compulsion, I suppose, but it makes me very happy and I love doing it.
How easy is it to bring your own style to the amalgam of American roots music and 70’s classic rock music?
That’s interesting. I think one of the biggest influences on not just the music, but the ethos in a way if that isn’t too big a word, is Ronnie Lane. You hear Ronnie Lane singing songs like ‘Debris’ and songs about London or his family, surroundings and friends, and from Grand Drive to now we’ve always done it, because while we may love the sound of American records that is not our life and I’ve never tried to write about highways and cowboys, Although, on this album, there is something about a cowboy but in a kind of funny, nostalgic, comic book setting. I just write about me, my friends, and my surroundings, and therefore whatever backdrop you put it on, it always seems authentic to me at least. I’m just trying to be authentic, we are just trying to be us.
The lyrics on the new album seem very personal. What was driving your thought processes?
Yes, very much so. I don’t really know why, but I guess I’m 52 now and again, it just dominated the songs. It’s funny, someone asked my wife if I was OK. I am, but when you write songs you have an opportunity to explore some of the things you might not display in normal conversation down the shops or down the pub. So, yes, they are very personal and I think they are a bit melancholic, but I don’t know anyone who doesn’t have a bit of melancholy in their souls.
How easy was the recording of the songs?
This album was started a few years back, just before lockdown really. So, it definitely hasn’t been easy to record, and it isn’t a lockdown record, and we actually recorded and re-recorded this album two or three 
times. What you are left with is actually the third or fourth go at recording the album. Everything previously has been recorded in a studio within two weeks, or something like that, with everyone in the room at the same time, but I made a playlist for the band with this record, and it was a playlist I wanted them to listen to and kind of digest before we even started making any music because it is a little bit of a departure. I wanted it to be what me and Tom Collison from the band, and other people, call big music. I suppose some of the things that were influencing where I wanted it to go, but I hadn’t any idea how we were going to do it, were Kate Bush, Peter Gabriel, Floyd, David Sylvian, a bit of Eno, Blue Nile, ambitious music, you know.
I wasn’t writing songs in a different way, but I just wanted to create a slightly bigger soundscape. So, the playlist came first, and I think everyone in the band was up for the challenge. I didn’t want anyone to lose their personality within it, but I wanted something with a bigger space sonically. It is probably the first record the Champs have ever made where it’s not all recorded in a room like a live band, everyone did multiple tracks and things, and there’s editing. It’s very much a sculptured, massaged piece of work and it took a long time to do. There was an awful lot of conversation, Tom Collison the keyboard player in the band produced the record and as a result of that, it was recorded in loads of different places. A lot of it was recorded at Henry Senior the pedal steel player’s house. There’s a venue in South London where I have a record shop called the Sound Lounge and they had a little pop-up venue in Morden, which is the end-of-the-line on the Northern Line, and we recorded the vocals and some guitars there. The bass was recorded in Singapore by a very old friend of mine called Dan Hawkins, who is amazing, Yeah, it was very piecemeal, a very considered process, which is odd for us because we are essentially a live band. It was intriguing and an experiment but an experiment I was absolutely thrilled with, and the question is where next?
How did the band adapt? Paul Lush is a bit of a feature of the band’s style, how did it affect his playing?
I think it affected his playing quite a lot, actually. Paul and I are guys who enjoy standing on stage and trying to seize the moment and grab the feeling in the room at the time and play, where before we’d all be in a room together, and I’d been playing guitar, this time there was a lot less rhythm guitar, a lot less noise I suppose. What we created with some of the key sound beds without a lot of strumming from me was a lot of space, and I think Paul really took the opportunity to express himself in a really amazing way. Also, when we are normally in a room there will be spill from the drums on the guitar, and you’re not settling for less but it’s a bit like a group photo where none of you look quite your best but we all look pretty good together. With live recording, there is a bit of that, especially on a budget, but this time he had multiple opportunities to make as many passes on a song as he wanted, and then edit them together, because like I said before, it’s not one big live performance it is sculpted. I think Lushy really grabs the opportunity to use the space he’s given, as do the others, and he plays some quite transcendental stuff. It’s very satisfying for me to hear the guys playing such amazing stuff.
You have a couple of horn players. What creative opportunities do they bring to the band?
Interestingly, we’ve got one of the longest-serving Champs, and The Champs has been going for 16 years now which is insane, is Free Jazz Geoff and he played on the interval bits and instrumental sections that add to the narrative of the record, in a way. He is playing some quite ambient, almost free stuff in there, and on the real ‘80s Dire Straits-type stuff, is oddly my uncle, my dad’s brother who lives in Australia. He was a club saxophone player all his life, and he ended up teaching after a while, but he’d have played Baker Street a million times, he’s that kind of player. He’s 78 years old and lives in Melbourne, and I asked him to play on the record on stuff like ‘The Robot Cries’ he’s very Mel Collins, it’s very big music, very ‘80s in a way. He sent us some files he’d done, and we just wanted it to be like Bowie and the Dire Straits stuff and he just nailed it, they loved it.
Again, it’s just space, if you create more space for people they kind of have options, they can kind of follow their heart in the music. As it’s not a live take it doesn’t need to be complete, you can take an idea and follow it to the nth degree and go you’re on to something here, now let’s take it over there. So, they all have a bit more space and a bit more time. We’ve never made a record where there’s a budget as such, and we didn’t have a budget for this but we had time, and as Tom Collison said, we’re spending an awful lot of time, and I dread to think what it would cost if it was studio time and the clock was ticking. In a weird way, musically it is the most expensive record we’ve ever made, but obviously on a budget because we don’t really have much of a budget. We just wanted to make one of those big records.
You are beaming, you must be very happy with the record.
I’m very happy, I’ve used the word satisfied, and I think the word satisfied can be quite boring, but I’m blown away. It’s one of the few records, including the Grand Drive stuff, that I’ve ever made even come release day, or after the release day, that I’m still listening to it and I love it. I’m moved by it, I feel very, very proud of it.
You have loads of critical plaudits, but what are the financial dynamics of keeping the band going in the current climate?
It’s really tough. It doesn’t cost an awful lot to see The Champs if we do a show over £15 I’m thinking we want people to come, I don’t want this to be expensive, but when you are looking at the bigger end of things, like Dylan coming over recently or Springsteen in the summer, you can see how hard it is just by how much the tickets cost for those shows because they are clearly not making a lot of money out of their records. So, at our end it’s a squeeze, I would consider it a huge success if everyone in the band and in the van got paid something every day that could add up to paying their rent, and we come home without any debts. There’s not much more than that. The fuel all of us run on is the love for doing it, it’s important and we love doing it, but nobody’s getting rich and we’re lucky to make the rent most of the time.
What can people expect on your 2025 UK Tour?
The live show is going to be very much like the live shows have always been, with a few different sounds in our tool kit. We did a show a couple of weeks ago at The Garage in London to mark the release of the record, with possibly one of the biggest crowds we’ve ever had, just amazing, We didn’t ask too much of people, we didn’t try and play the album from start to finish, I think we played six songs quite faithfully to the album and also all the songs that made anyone fall in love with the band in the first place. So, it’s not year zero by any means. When I go to see Springsteen, War On Drugs, the Hanging Stars’ Emma Tricca, Hannah White or whoever it is I love to hear their new stuff, but my favourite songs are the ones that made me prick my ears up in the first place. We just want to make everybody happy, so we are playing everything. The only difficult thing after all these years is doing a two-hour show with everything people want to hear and we want to play, it’s quite tough. But, that’s a nice problem to have.
If you could go back 30 years to your younger self as he was just starting out, what would you say to him?
That’s really interesting. I certainly wouldn’t have any business advice, I don’t think. It’s a difficult one, you know there are opportunities you know you missed, and there are things you know you didn’t grab with both hands when you should have just through instinct or whatever, but I don’t regret any of it. I’ve always loved it and I love it more now. I’d just say, keep going, mate.
At AUK, we like to share music with our readers, so can you share which artists, albums, or tracks are currently top three on your personal playlist?
There are times if you ask me this the answer is not a lot. I’m going to a gig tonight to see a gentleman called MJ Lenderman and he’s released a new album this year called “Manning Fireworks”. It’s brilliant, he’s got quite a young audience but the music reminds me of Pavement, Richard Fontaine or something like that. It’s very alt-country, and I really like his record. There are a couple of guys from up North who are slightly psychedelic folk guitar players and singer-songwriters called Henry Parker & David Ian Roberts, and they’ve just done a duet record of guitar instrumentals called “Chasing Light”. I saw them the other day, and if you like Bert Jansch, Davey Graham and Dave Evans or that type of thing it is absolutely a beautiful record. I had a nice chat with them after their show and they seemed really good guys, they’re really into what they do.
There are a load of brilliant female singer-songwriters around at the moment who I enjoy seeing live. Emma Tricca is one who’s been around a while, and I’d describe her music as a Greenwich Village folk-type thing with maybe a more cosmic type approach. Sarah Jane Scouten is a Canadian girl who I’ve seen a few times, and I saw her play down the Betsy Trotwood at the monthly club night, it was brilliant. I’m good friends with Hannah White and I love her music. Hannah Scott is another Hannah with a new record out which I love. There are so many new records out, Peter Bruntnell’s new record “Houdini & The Sucker Punch” is great.
On old stuff, I’m listening to Dave Evans and a lot of folk at the moment, but on any given day I might be listening to something like King Crimson. I love it, my day job is I run a record shop and I’m completely insatiable. I’ve just discovered Bruce Cockburn’s early music, and it’s absolutely blown me away. I’ve known the name for years, and my dad may have had one or two of his records, but he is just really, really intriguing to me at the moment. It is just constant, day to day, week to week, I’ll be searching out some obscurity, it is my life’s passion. I’m an equal fan of listening to music as I am of playing music.
Finally, do you want to say anything to our UK readers?
Just thanks so much for all the support you’ve given over the years. I think Grand Drive’s third album “See The Morning In” was an album of the year or something, and I remember it meaning an awful lot then. I’m still thrilled to be around doing it, I’m thrilled Americana UK is still doing it and still being really relevant and important in the scene. Again, I’m just really grateful for the support. I’m really glad I started out pre-streaming because I think it is really hard now for anyone starting out. I see what people have to do now to market their music, and I think it is an awful lot of work outside the creative process of making music, but if you love it, do it.
Danny & The Champions of the World’s “You Are Not A Stranger Here” is out now on Loose Music.
Danny & The Champions of the World 2025 Tour Dates.
Wed 12th March 2025, Cardiff, Acapela Studios
Thu 13th March, Oxford, Jericho
Sat 15th March, Exeter. Phoenix
Sun 16th March, Birmingham, Hare & Hounds
Tue 18th March, Nottingham, Angel Microbrewery
Wed 19th March, Manchester, Gulliver’s
Thu 20th March, Leeds, Brudenell
Fri 21st March, Glasgow, Hug & Pint
Sat 22nd March, Gosforth, Civic Theatre
Sun 23rd March, Birkenhead, Future Yard
Wed 26th March, Norwich, Arts Centre
Thu 27th March, Guildford, The Keep
Fri 28th March, Bristol, Louisiana
Sat 29th March, Brighton, Green Door Store
Sun 30th March, Portsmouth, Wedgewood Rooms
Fri 4th April, Chelmsford, Social Club
